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JohnnyB wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:04 pm

Burgess and Hladky had poor games. If the back’s shaky you’re vulnerable- and so it proved. Really really disappointing

I was never overly keen on Burgess, he was part of a very poor defence last season (68 conceed to Town's 46), you're going to have good heading and tackling stats if your team are constantly under the cosh, how about the goals conceeded stat?

Cannot believe with all the rediculous amounts of firepower we have (top scorers in the league), that we've ended up with a really suspect and far worse than last season defence.

Only 3 teams conceeded less than Town last season, yet we go for wholesale changes, that has to lie at Cook's door.

Ricco wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:11 pm

JohnnyB wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:04 pm

Burgess and Hladky had poor games. If the back’s shaky you’re vulnerable- and so it proved. Really really disappointing

I was never overly keen on Burgess, he was part of a very poor defence last season (68 conceed to Town's 46), you're going to have good heading and tackling stats if your team are constantly under the cosh, how about the goals conceeded stat?

Cannot believe with all the rediculous amounts of firepower we have (top scorers in the league), that we've ended up with a really suspect and far worse than last season defence.

Only 3 teams conceeded less than Town last season, yet we go for wholesale changes, that has to lie at Cook's door.

I think you’re right. We got rid of Wilson (on a free?) who is now a regular for the league leaders. I thought Edmundson had a pretty good game. But what does Burgess offer? Until today I would have said strength and ability in the air. Not after today…

Toto in on Tuesday ?

Toto has always been our best CB despite the masses claiming him to be the devil incarnate

JohnnyB wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:28 pm

I think you’re right. We got rid of Wilson (on a free?) who is now a regular for the league leaders. I thought Edmundson had a pretty good game. But what does Burgess offer? Until today I would have said strength and ability in the air. Not after today…

Yeah I didn't have the same suspicions with Edmundson he comes with more prestige and caliber I think. I also don't mind that he had a massive go at Hldaky after he came and missed one, we want players that won't accept mediocrity.

I haven't seen enough to form massively stong opinions, but definitely, I'd be happy to Nsiala back in and I woudn't be surprised either.

Bluemike wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:00 pm

I genuinely don't see us getting there under Cook, it goes against the grain with me to say this as I'm normally more patient than most but Sack the prat now ffs.

Bloody hell, Mike. You are pissed off.

I can fully understand why though. The 'gel' should have set by now.

I am mate, it gets tedious and boring, the only difference to the Evans days is that we are debt free, how the hell does that benefit me ? Yes we are better to watch but the disappointment and feeling of let down is even greater, we aren't going anywhere fast with this current set up, another defeat beckons Tuesday.

Why would you put on both Edwards and Celina with 10 minutes to go winning 2-1?

Celina is powder-puff. Edwards an x-factor player as well. Trying to win 3 or 4-1 when you need to see the game out for 2-1. Could have put Harper on and even Toto as extra CB. I’m starting to feel cook’s got too many nice toys to play with and doesn’t know what to do with them.
Burgess been shaky for a few games and time for Toto to come in. So many points wasted.

These results are more frustrating given the squad we have now, I had come to expect disappointment over the last couple of seasons but had renewed optimism this season, sadly that is running out fast.

It does very much feel like PC is failing to get anywhere near the best out of this group of players, I wonder how much longer the owners will put up with this?

On the other hand 3 wins in the next 3 games and all will be rosy again! You never know with ITFC

On another sad note, thoughts and condolences to Joe Pigott and his family after his father passed away yesterday.

tangfastic wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:57 pm

Why would you put on both Edwards and Celina with 10 minutes to go winning 2-1?

Celina is powder-puff. Edwards an x-factor player as well. Trying to win 3 or 4-1 when you need to see the game out for 2-1. Could have put Harper on and even Toto as extra CB. I’m starting to feel cook’s got too many nice toys to play with and doesn’t know what to do with them.
Burgess been shaky for a few games and time for Toto to come in. So many points wasted.

Cook's come out and said he made the substitutions to go and score again, there's a time and a place, this sits firmly at his door I'm afraid, starting to think he's out of his depth.

Lets not forget MM used to sub a forward and bring on a defender when 1 up with 15-20 mins to go and we usually let it slip to 1-1 or a loss. Just wish Cook had a second go to formation for a different purpose- i.e. holding on to a lead or going all out to equalize or win. Not sure he is good enough

Really hope that the owners and Ashton are looking at Cook’s position and realise that it just doesn’t appear to be working.
Hopefully they are already drawing up a shortlist although who knows his replacement might have just joined us (I bloody hope not!).

Bluemike wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:31 pm

tangfastic wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:57 pm

Why would you put on both Edwards and Celina with 10 minutes to go winning 2-1?

Celina is powder-puff. Edwards an x-factor player as well. Trying to win 3 or 4-1 when you need to see the game out for 2-1. Could have put Harper on and even Toto as extra CB. I’m starting to feel cook’s got too many nice toys to play with and doesn’t know what to do with them.
Burgess been shaky for a few games and time for Toto to come in. So many points wasted.

Cook's come out and said he made the substitutions to go and score again, there's a time and a place, this sits firmly at his door I'm afraid, starting to think he's out of his depth.

That’s fine Mike but how many times have we criticised previous managers for defending a one goal lead in the final 10 minutes and not attacking to put the game to bed.

patthegimp wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:47 pm

Lets not forget MM used to sub a forward and bring on a defender when 1 up with 15-20 mins to go and we usually let it slip to 1-1 or a loss. Just wish Cook had a second go to formation for a different purpose- i.e. holding on to a lead or going all out to equalize or win. Not sure he is good enough

MM would sub on a defender with 89 minutes to go to hold a 1-0 lead. These times are horribly frustrating, but I prefer it to that negative trash mindset of MM. It pays to remain positive in my mind, Celina and Edwards is a bit much, but to be able to bring such quality on, it wouldn't be a surprise if they came up with the goods, made it 3-1 against tired legs and we'd all be singing Cook's praises. Wrong decision yes, but it looks a hell of a lot worse with the luxury of hindsight.

Also context, the past 20 years means we are very sensitive to negative results, I still believe we're on to something good, it certainly is taking longer than I thought, certainly defensively, that much is embarrassing.

Bluemike wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:31 pm

tangfastic wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:57 pm

Why would you put on both Edwards and Celina with 10 minutes to go winning 2-1?

Celina is powder-puff. Edwards an x-factor player as well. Trying to win 3 or 4-1 when you need to see the game out for 2-1. Could have put Harper on and even Toto as extra CB. I’m starting to feel cook’s got too many nice toys to play with and doesn’t know what to do with them.
Burgess been shaky for a few games and time for Toto to come in. So many points wasted.

Cook's come out and said he made the substitutions to go and score again, there's a time and a place, this sits firmly at his door I'm afraid, starting to think he's out of his depth.

He also said he has never been a manager that will get his teams to sit back ….,

I think he needs to strike a balance somewhere in the middle. Attack can be a very good form of “ defence “ but it’s about being able to read the situation and making the right call about which way to go, attack or make ourselves harder to break down by bringing on a more defensively minded player. As Mills said, Morsy needed someone to support him inform of that defence .

Hopefully Reid will offer Cook the correct advice before Tuesdays game !

PC needs to sort out another quality CB strength in depth means harder to breakdown, I would have thought PC would have thought about this possibility when signing up 20+ new players, he can still dip into the players without a contract market, and I would have thought Peter Read is the ideal one to get that sorted ASAP

Morecambe, Cheltenham, MK Dons, Accrington, West Ham under 10s, Cambridge, Newport, Burton, Bolton.

This is not a learning process, this is the norm.

I’m also starting to wonder if some of these players we have brought in aren’t quite as good as we thought they were.
Goalkeeper still looks very suspect, questions already being asked about Burgess. Although he didn’t play today Evans hasn’t exactly been pulling up trees , Harper hit and miss. Could it be a case again of us thinking we have a better squad than we really do?

Ricco wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:04 pm

patthegimp wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:47 pm

Lets not forget MM used to sub a forward and bring on a defender when 1 up with 15-20 mins to go and we usually let it slip to 1-1 or a loss. Just wish Cook had a second go to formation for a different purpose- i.e. holding on to a lead or going all out to equalize or win. Not sure he is good enough

MM would sub on a defender with 89 minutes to go to hold a 1-0 lead. These times are horribly frustrating, but I prefer it to that negative trash mindset of MM. It pays to remain positive in my mind, Celina and Edwards is a bit much, but to be able to bring such quality on, it wouldn't be a surprise if they came up with the goods, made it 3-1 against tired legs and we'd all be singing Cook's praises. Wrong decision yes, but it looks a hell of a lot worse with the luxury of hindsight.

Also context, the past 20 years means we are very sensitive to negative results, I still believe we're on to something good, it certainly is taking longer than I thought, certainly defensively, that much is embarrassing.

Fully agree.

I personally think I’d have done the exact same subs, players with quality and pace to counter attack a tired team who are pushing for a goal - it’s exactly what you’d expect.

I do however wonder if it’s time to give Toto a try .

Of course the result is very disappointing but at least we seem to be making alot of chances now. I hope cook is the man for the job and I’ll give him time - this is a long term project so if we keep doing the miles then it’ll happen sooner or later. Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that, trust the process and give it time - it doesn’t always go as easily as we’d like but we have the start of something good upon us now at this club.

I think it’s a monumental task to rebuild a squad almost entirely. Our American owners brought with them great optimism, but in reality there is no quick fix for a Club that has been in decline for more than 20yrs. I don’t think we’ll see a managerial change this season, and I’ll be extremely surprised if we make the playoffs. Question is, how much patience do we all have left?

Just love this comment by PC after today's game...

"It's so disappointing because we take our fans on a journey. We take them close to giving them something to drink, and then we turn the tap off.

"

While this is a very disappointing result particularly because, as has become customary, we gave away a a winning position, I think some of the reactions here are a little over the top.

The Accrington performance undermined our confidence that the team was making progress. This result feeds into that jolt to our confidence. However, if we step back and look at recent games, we have shown definite signs of improvement. Accrington aside. We are playing better football than we have in years. We look good going forward. Midfield is not right yet, but we have the players to be very strong there. It will not take much for that side of the team to really click. I am confident it will happen.

Defence has been more of a problem but, again, we have the players to fix it. The big disappointment for me so far is how long it is taking to sort out the defence.

I believe we will come good. I believe we will be in the playoffs come the end of the season. I believe, at that stage, we will be the in-form team in the league and will be favourites to go up. My faith in Cook has been damaged but not irreparably. c*ck-eyed optimist to the end!

Shed on tour wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:54 pm

I’m also starting to wonder if some of these players we have brought in aren’t quite as good as we thought they were.
Goalkeeper still looks very suspect, questions already being asked about Burgess. Although he didn’t play today Evans hasn’t exactly been pulling up trees , Harper hit and miss. Could it be a case again of us thinking we have a better squad than we really do?

I’m my afraid I’d agree with you Tony. I don’t really rate the GK ( no presence or height in the box ) and Burgess is no better than Woolfie for giving away soft goals. This makes our central defensive area very weak IMO.

Not sure when Walton is fit again but if he having him in the side and Toto in in place of Burgess.

All that said , I’m not at all surprised we struggled against Cambridge- they’ve taken a fair few high profile scalps this season already and we’re hardly firing on all cylinders !

JOHN DEERE wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:56 pm

While this is a very disappointing result particularly because, as has become customary, we gave away a a winning position, I think some of the reactions here are a little over the top.

The Accrington performance undermined our confidence that the team was making progress. This result feeds into that jolt to our confidence. However, if we step back and look at recent games, we have shown definite signs of improvement. Accrington aside. We are playing better football than we have in years. We look good going forward. Midfield is not right yet, but we have the players to be very strong there. It will not take much for that side of the team to really click. I am confident it will happen.

Defence has been more of a problem but, again, we have the players to fix it. The big disappointment for me so far is how long it is taking to sort out the defence.

I believe we will come good. I believe we will be in the playoffs come the end of the season. I believe, at that stage, we will be the in-form team in the league and will be favourites to go up. My faith in Cook has been damaged but not irreparably. c*ck-eyed optimist to the end!

I don’t think the quality / caliber of our defence / defenders is anywhere near that of our attacking players , and therein is our problem.

number 9 wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:01 pm

I think it’s a monumental task to rebuild a squad almost entirely. Our American owners brought with them great optimism, but in reality there is no quick fix for a Club that has been in decline for more than 20yrs. I don’t think we’ll see a managerial change this season, and I’ll be extremely surprised if we make the playoffs. Question is, how much patience do we all have left?

Spot on number 9. I think the only people expecting a quick fix are the unrealistic fans . I’ve said all along it will take the whole of this season for these massive wholesale changes ( which have been required for two decades) to take effect . It will not happen overnight … and frankly, even expecting promotion in a season since the take IS unrealistic in my humble opinion !

Plus points :

We can score goals. A goal now nearly always comes from someone in the team.

Aluko did well, didn't think he'd scored before today, it will provide the boy confidence . Made a change to see a new name score for the team.

We are the highest scorers in the division.

We gave ourselves a real chance at victory only to be denied in the closing minutes.

Stats indicate we had the far greater possession and opportunities created throughout course of game.

Negatives :

The continuation we cannot maintain a lead remains a concern.

Cook appeared to go again with a lone attacker, the less said the better.

Four wins in twelve is sub-standard, there can be little dispute.

The team despite showing signs of promise still seem not able to function as a cohesive unit.

The inability to win what seems often and aforementioned letting leads slip will eventually cost the team dear.

........................

Have viewed highlights and read game report, first reaction one of disappointment to see victory evade us near the very end but at least the team were on the verge of a winning situation. Can see becoming more frustrated i.e. with Cook as the weeks and months pass as the team really should be in a more promising position 12 games into a new season. I believe we got another game next midweek and shall endeavor this time to catch it.

Thoughts and sincere condolences to Joey Pigott and his immediate family also regards the bereavement. Such a young age to endure something of that nature, game or result seems almost immaterial when you put things into context.

Ricco wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:04 pm

patthegimp wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:47 pm

Lets not forget MM used to sub a forward and bring on a defender when 1 up with 15-20 mins to go and we usually let it slip to 1-1 or a loss. Just wish Cook had a second go to formation for a different purpose- i.e. holding on to a lead or going all out to equalize or win. Not sure he is good enough

MM would sub on a defender with 89 minutes to go to hold a 1-0 lead. These times are horribly frustrating, but I prefer it to that negative trash mindset of MM. It pays to remain positive in my mind, Celina and Edwards is a bit much, but to be able to bring such quality on, it wouldn't be a surprise if they came up with the goods, made it 3-1 against tired legs and we'd all be singing Cook's praises. Wrong decision yes, but it looks a hell of a lot worse with the luxury of hindsight.

Also context, the past 20 years means we are very sensitive to negative results, I still believe we're on to something good, it certainly is taking longer than I thought, certainly defensively, that much is embarrassing.

Take your point as we’ve done the ‘let’s put on an extra defender’ before and it’s backfired, but Celina and Edwards were not the right players to come on . I think Celina and Edwards should only be on the same pitch if we’re desperately chasing a game. I’m not even sure I’d want Celina and Edwards on the bench together. both mavericks who aren’t really team players. Nothing stuck with them and we offered less going forward. Harper would have been a better choice. Still annoyed, but you come to expect this.

I don’t think we can argue about the quality of players,they are a step up from last year!
However the problem still remains that when opposition managers adapt their tactics we are lost both on and off the field to react to them!
I am sorry to say that it’s becoming obvious that Cook is missing Richardson who I reckon he thought would come here at the start of the season, much like Lambert, take away the right hand and they struggle.
For how long the Americans will stick this is anyone’s guess but they are not here to fail.

Problem is you get rid of the manager , and the whole of the back room has to go too. That’s another monumental restructuring isn’t it.

I don’t think the owners will be firing Cook anytime soon, and definitely not his season, they at least, realise it’s a big ask when you essentially re invent a football club such as they have done.

What’s happened at ITFC this summer is the same as the club going completely out of business , and being re invented as a new club, but with the hassle of starting from outside the leagues (like AFC Wimbledon did).