Championship - Cardiff City vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

[marko69]

Don't you think its a big assumption to say that there were specific instructions to sit back? You have nothing to evidence that other than what you think you saw. I saw a Cardiff team that pushed us hard in the last few minutes (as we have often done this season - poor all game and then world beaters in injury time) and we just defended poorly. Nothing more in it than that. A bad day at the office and lapse of concentration but we move on. If they had pushed us hard in injury time and not scored, you would have been saying how well we managed the game out!

BINGO!! All of this is bang on the money.

Unfortunately there are fans amongst ANY supporter base who've allowed the phrase "a thankless task" with regard to football management become a modern day utterance. I find it completely baffling. And a definite danger to achieving success if I'm honest.
There were a ton of loaded mouths after Brovers last season with utter wind & pish (And they can be dug up if need be) ....... Just got to be thankful it's Kieron McKenna doing the steering. Looking like, (after yesterday's presser) that the wind & pish is water off a ducks back to the guy. Long may that continue.

To the defensive playing staff.... Discuss amongst yourselves (without Kieron) what went wrong on Saturday. It's on you lot.

[number 9]

We’ve gotten away with several defensive errors, eventually it will catch up as it did against Cardiff.

[Denny61]

We can wax lyrically on here about who' is at fault..who did what..who didn't cover back. Who didn't watch who ...but when all is said and done..all we have is a league 1 defense unit..jst about getting away with it to a certain degree in this league..the achilles heel in mckennas coaching and way of thinking has let him down. He is more attack minded play footie on the ground..Nice style and all that..but forgetting that forward thinking teams will have their home work done and counter act that ..plus long balls in to our backs and set pieces will eventually pay off..its a learning curve for mckenna..but it is what it is and we are still in an position most championship sides in the league for years who remain static will envy

[rossi]

You actually place yesterdays defensive collapse in that crazy 5 minute period at Kieron McKennas doorstep? JaysusH. Wow.

The instructions to sit back and let them come at us and absorb them after we scored must have come from somewhere. If you had read what I wrote farther up the thread you would have noted that as far as I am concerned this was not a defensive collapse - I don't blame the defenders, I blame the ethos that caused us to sit back and let them come at us

Don't you think its a big assumption to say that there were specific instructions to sit back? You have nothing to evidence that other than what you think you saw. I saw a Cardiff team that pushed us hard in the last few minutes (as we have often done this season - poor all game and then world beaters in injury time) and we just defended poorly. Nothing more in it than that. A bad day at the office and lapse of concentration but we move on. If they had pushed us hard in injury time and not scored, you would have been saying how well we managed the game out!

sorry, but to me that's cobblers. Instructions are given from the bench all game every game - in fact any bench that doesn't constantly bark out instructions isn't doing it's job. As for saying I would have applauded the tactic had they not have overhauled us - clearly you don't know me at all, anybody who does know me will tell you that I absolutely hate any form of negativity in approach.

[rossi]

Don't you think its a big assumption to say that there were specific instructions to sit back? You have nothing to evidence that other than what you think you saw. I saw a Cardiff team that pushed us hard in the last few minutes (as we have often done this season - poor all game and then world beaters in injury time) and we just defended poorly. Nothing more in it than that. A bad day at the office and lapse of concentration but we move on. If they had pushed us hard in injury time and not scored, you would have been saying how well we managed the game out!

BINGO!! All of this is bang on the money.

Unfortunately there are fans amongst ANY supporter base who've allowed the phrase "a thankless task" with regard to football management become a modern day utterance. I find it completely baffling. And a definite danger to achieving success if I'm honest.
There were a ton of loaded mouths after Brovers last season with utter wind & pish (And they can be dug up if need be) ....... Just got to be thankful it's Kieron McKenna doing the steering. Looking like, (after yesterday's presser) that the wind & pish is water off a ducks back to the guy. Long may that continue.

To the defensive playing staff.... Discuss amongst yourselves (without Kieron) what went wrong on Saturday. It's on you lot.

Oh please - as if KM or any of the players are going to read this forum, let alone take any comments made to heart.

[Blue Wilf]

The instructions to sit back and let them come at us and absorb them after we scored must have come from somewhere. If you had read what I wrote farther up the thread you would have noted that as far as I am concerned this was not a defensive collapse - I don't blame the defenders, I blame the ethos that caused us to sit back and let them come at us

Don't you think its a big assumption to say that there were specific instructions to sit back? You have nothing to evidence that other than what you think you saw. I saw a Cardiff team that pushed us hard in the last few minutes (as we have often done this season - poor all game and then world beaters in injury time) and we just defended poorly. Nothing more in it than that. A bad day at the office and lapse of concentration but we move on. If they had pushed us hard in injury time and not scored, you would have been saying how well we managed the game out!

sorry, but to me that's cobblers. Instructions are given from the bench all game every game - in fact any bench that doesn't constantly bark out instructions isn't doing it's job. As for saying I would have applauded the tactic had they not have overhauled us - clearly you don't know me at all, anybody who does know me will tell you that I absolutely hate any form of negativity in approach.

Well you are right that I do not know you, Rossi but what I do know is that I stand by my comments - you have zero evidence that anyone was told to sit back and take the pressure. I firmly do not think that directive was given - it was just pressure applied and defensive frailties - end of. Guess we will have to agree to disagree!

[AzzurroMark]

IMO there's no way the players were instructed to hold back. If that was the case why didn't KM bring the more defensive qualities of Tuanzebe and Travis on over the likes of Taylor and Harness?
I think more credit should be given to Cardiff too, who obviously made some good substitutions themselves, allowing them to get more on the front foot and push us back. The impetus changed and they did what they are best in the Championship at doing by scoring from a dead ball situation (a corner) to win the game.
Like the argument about Moore not starting his first game back at Ipswich, perhaps we could speculate that had he stayed on the pitch yesterday then we may have held out, who knows!

[number 9]

KM stated in his post march comments Moore was taken off because he was exhausted.

[ashfordblue]

KM stated in his post-march comments Moore was taken off because he was exhausted.

That is the correct statement, Moore did look knackered and hence taken off as he covers a lot of ground off and on the ball, but why didn't KM bring on Travis instead of Taylor that was a big mistake as Travis would have been the ideal midfield defender in the last 20 minutes as he gets through a hell of a lot of defence work never stops running, and why did he drop Axel is beyond understanding, and then not bringing him on and sub-Clarke who was always leaving gaping holes at the back charging off into midfield and upfront, I hope we see Clarke either dropped to the bench next Saturday against Sheff Wed and put Axel as RB where he's played outstanding plus we look a lot more stable with him at the back he knows when its safe to go forward and when to stay back as he reads the game well.

[rossi]

Well you are right that I do not know you, Rossi but what I do know is that I stand by my comments - you have zero evidence that anyone was told to sit back and take the pressure. I firmly do not think that directive was given - it was just pressure applied and defensive frailties - end of. Guess we will have to agree to disagree!

and that - in a nutshell - is the beauty of a forum

[number 9]

KM stated in his post-march comments Moore was taken off because he was exhausted.

That is the correct statement, Moore did look knackered and hence taken off as he covers a lot of ground off and on the ball, but why didn't KM bring on Travis instead of Taylor that was a big mistake as Travis would have been the ideal midfield defender in the last 20 minutes as he gets through a hell of a lot of defence work never stops running, and why did he drop Axel is beyond understanding, and then not bringing him on and sub-Clarke who was always leaving gaping holes at the back charging off into midfield and upfront, I hope we see Clarke either dropped to the bench next Saturday against Sheff Wed and put Axel as RB where he's played outstanding plus we look a lot more stable with him at the back he knows when its safe to go forward and when to stay back as he reads the game well.

Agree with all of that.

[rossi]

IMO there's no way the players were instructed to hold back. If that was the case why didn't KM bring the more defensive qualities of Tuanzebe and Travis on over the likes of Taylor and Harness?
I think more credit should be given to Cardiff too, who obviously made some good substitutions themselves, allowing them to get more on the front foot and push us back. The impetus changed and they did what they are best in the Championship at doing by scoring from a dead ball situation (a corner) to win the game.
Like the argument about Moore not starting his first game back at Ipswich, perhaps we could speculate that had he stayed on the pitch yesterday then we may have held out, who knows!

Didn't you watch the game, Mark?
Because 4 substitutions (including the ones you allude to) were made before we scored, the only substitution we made after we scored was Al-Hamedi for Moore (like for like). I'm saying the instructions to sit back were given after we scored

[marko69]

IMO there's no way the players were instructed to hold back. If that was the case why didn't KM bring the more defensive qualities of Tuanzebe and Travis on over the likes of Taylor and Harness?
I think more credit should be given to Cardiff too, who obviously made some good substitutions themselves, allowing them to get more on the front foot and push us back. The impetus changed and they did what they are best in the Championship at doing by scoring from a dead ball situation (a corner) to win the game.
Like the argument about Moore not starting his first game back at Ipswich, perhaps we could speculate that had he stayed on the pitch yesterday then we may have held out, who knows!

Didn't you watch the game, Mark?
Because 4 substitutions (including the ones you allude to) were made before we scored, the only substitution we made after we scored was Al-Hamedi for Moore (like for like). I'm saying the instructions to sit back were given after we scored

The instructions were given after Moore scored? Got to assume you were either in or close to and in earshot of the dugout? Where are you getting this from? Was Jimmy f**king Hill sitting next to Kieron? “Lock up shop, lock up shop”.

As Wilf said, Cardiff significantly upped the pressure and the defence couldn’t handle it. That is what happened and the defence need to sort that. All for the discussion of the Jan window and perhaps not bringing in “quality” defenders; there is a debate there for sure.
But to say the manager instructed the team to sit back is nothing but assumption. Posting it like its fact is damaging. And its damaging because there will be numpty supporters out there who’ll jump on your bandwagon at this crucial stage of the season. Jaysus fkn H.

[AzzurroMark]

IMO there's no way the players were instructed to hold back. If that was the case why didn't KM bring the more defensive qualities of Tuanzebe and Travis on over the likes of Taylor and Harness?
I think more credit should be given to Cardiff too, who obviously made some good substitutions themselves, allowing them to get more on the front foot and push us back. The impetus changed and they did what they are best in the Championship at doing by scoring from a dead ball situation (a corner) to win the game.
Like the argument about Moore not starting his first game back at Ipswich, perhaps we could speculate that had he stayed on the pitch yesterday then we may have held out, who knows!

Didn't you watch the game, Mark?
Because 4 substitutions (including the ones you allude to) were made before we scored, the only substitution we made after we scored was Al-Hamedi for Moore (like for like). I'm saying the instructions to sit back were given after we scored

Fair play, that's my argument shot down in flames I did watch the game, but hadn't paid much attention to detail when putting my case forward the next evening. I get your point about not wanting to see 'negative' play, which it may have seemed at the end. It was also very uncomfortable watching with us trying to hang on for dear life.
That said I still don't think the coaching staff would've instructed the team to sit back, as a team ranked highest on set piece goals is the last type of team you want bombing forward trying to win free kicks & corners.
I don't watch many matches, but I agree sometimes there are times when 'game management' to see out a win are a sensible option, but usually when there's more of a comfortable scoreline than 1-0. From that view point, while the Al-Hamadi/Moore substitution was indeed 'like for like' because KM was exhausted, we also lost Moore's aerial ability in our own box. To that point bringing Tuanzebe or Travis on for their defensive capabilities would have been a better option for a team being required to hold onto a lead. (In hindsight maybe that's the substitution which should've happened?).
Also, Cardiff had had several good moments during the match and I think that their coaching team deserves more credit than many of us have given them! Likewise on the numerous occasions where we have done that exact same thing, I doubt many opposing managers have instructed the team to sit back! It's just similar substitutions (to the Cardiff game) have usually powered Ipswich on to the win! This time it just wasn't to be!

[rossi]

The instructions were given after Moore scored? Got to assume you were either in or close to and in earshot of the dugout? Where are you getting this from? Was Jimmy f**king Hill sitting next to Kieron? “Lock up shop, lock up shop”.

As Wilf said, Cardiff significantly upped the pressure and the defence couldn’t handle it. That is what happened and the defence need to sort that. All for the discussion of the Jan window and perhaps not bringing in “quality” defenders; there is a debate there for sure.
But to say the manager instructed the team to sit back is nothing but assumption. Posting it like its fact is damaging. And its damaging because there will be numpty supporters out there who’ll jump on your bandwagon at this crucial stage of the season. Jaysus fkn H.

I don't have a bandwagon for anybody to jump on - I'll let your assertion that anybody who happens to agree with me being a numpty pass.
For the record, I never said I heard what was passed on to the team from the bench, although instructioins were being shouted out every minute or 2. I simply observed the stance taken by the team after we scored - we stopped getting to the ball first, we slowed down the pace of the game, we stopped trying to move forward at speed, and we let Cardiff come at us. Not just defenders, midfielders and strikers too. I find it difficult to believe all 10 outfield players would all decide to try to protect a lead in that way without some sort of instruction coming from the bench - I'm not saying that's what definitely happened but thats how it seemed to me.
If you lack the intellect to appreciate that it's my opinion (even though you don't have to agree with it), then that's not my problem, and certainly not worthy of your foul-mouthed rant.

[marko69]

[Bluemike]

Moore makes team of the week, are they having a f**king laugh ? All I can say is there was some p*ss poor performances around the league Saturday

[hallamblue]

The even bigger laugh was the rest of the championship team if the week was made up of narwich players…. Beating a league one side is hardly Championship level is it. No doubt they will be holding a open top bus parade to celebrate

[number 9]

The even bigger laugh was the rest of the championship team if the week was made up of narwich players…. Beating a league one side is hardly Championship level is it. No doubt they will be holding a open top bus parade to celebrate

Lol! Well it will be the short bus, for sure! (Sorry American joke)

[arana peligrosa]

Read on a rival page Some 70-plus Cardiff fan was targeted by a group of our "supporters" outside the stadium, got punched to the floor and required medical attention. Guessing this occurred after the game, result and time must have been too raw for one or two of our supporters so why not go and assault senior citizens. Some kids were the perpetrators if accounts are correct but point being this kind of behavior just isn't us.

All the years following this team, there's been racial allegations, smoke flares and crowd disorder for sure, but actual physical assault on a rival fan ? Think that may be new something new particularly regards what should be a regular innocuous trip to Wales for a League contest. It maybe goes on more commonplace than some would imagine, particularly the derby game/s with us and City, but initial thought being, that's not us and what we're supposed to be about. Thoughts go out to the rival fan who was beaten up, feel a need to apologize for some idiot/s giving us a bad name. Quick recovery and all the best. We're not a bad club name despite any isolated incident.

[number 9]

Whatever! I remember being overcome by a cluster of Canaries threatening to kick my as*. Then over the hill a thousand Ipswich fans came to my rescue. f*ck with me, I’ll f*ck with you!

[rossi]

IMO there's no way the players were instructed to hold back. If that was the case why didn't KM bring the more defensive qualities of Tuanzebe and Travis on over the likes of Taylor and Harness?
I think more credit should be given to Cardiff too, who obviously made some good substitutions themselves, allowing them to get more on the front foot and push us back. The impetus changed and they did what they are best in the Championship at doing by scoring from a dead ball situation (a corner) to win the game.
Like the argument about Moore not starting his first game back at Ipswich, perhaps we could speculate that had he stayed on the pitch yesterday then we may have held out, who knows!

Didn't you watch the game, Mark?
Because 4 substitutions (including the ones you allude to) were made before we scored, the only substitution we made after we scored was Al-Hamedi for Moore (like for like). I'm saying the instructions to sit back were given after we scored

The instructions were given after Moore scored? Got to assume you were either in or close to and in earshot of the dugout? Where are you getting this from? Was Jimmy f**king Hill sitting next to Kieron? “Lock up shop, lock up shop”.

As Wilf said, Cardiff significantly upped the pressure and the defence couldn’t handle it. That is what happened and the defence need to sort that. All for the discussion of the Jan window and perhaps not bringing in “quality” defenders; there is a debate there for sure.
But to say the manager instructed the team to sit back is nothing but assumption. Posting it like its fact is damaging. And its damaging because there will be numpty supporters out there who’ll jump on your bandwagon at this crucial stage of the season. Jaysus fkn H.

“We felt like by the time the goal came we'd grown into a good performance and I think we could have been good value for 1-0 if the game had finished five minutes earlier"

The clues are there for all to see - some, however, will remain blinkered.

[hallamblue]

Our problem was we sat back and tried to defend our lead. Sign of a tired team? I don’t know, but we have never, since I’ve been watching Town been very good at sitting deep and trying to defend a lead. We always concede.

[marko69]

Our problem was we sat back and tried to defend our lead. Sign of a tired team? I don’t know, but we have never, since I’ve been watching Town been very good at sitting deep and trying to defend a lead. We always concede.

All about opinions we know, but will agree to disagree on that part. Refuse to believe that the instruction was to sit back. Not a chance in hell. What happened was Cardiff significantly raised the intensity on a tiring Town team who had battled hard for a second goal and failed. I mean i wasn’t at the game but have seen enough to see that Cardiff were strangely making decent moves in the farcical modern day “injury time”.

If ANYONE at all could maybe get McKenna on “mic’d up” techno and hear him say “sit back, defend, soak it up”…….. Then sack the c*nt before SheffWed kick off.

[number 9]

I really don’t like these extended injury time rules. Have to say I like the NFL model of having a visible clock throughout the game where by the clock stops when play is interrupted. I know the traditionalist won’t like it, but it rules out any manipulation or ambiguity for when the match ends. Just my opinion…

[marko69]

I really don’t like these extended injury time rules. Have to say I like the NFL model of having a visible clock throughout the game where by the clock stops when play is interrupted. I know the traditionalist won’t like it, but it rules out any manipulation or ambiguity for when the match ends. Just my opinion…

Good point 9……. The only problem is, game kicks off at 3pm, ends at quarter to 8!

AFL is the same with clock management. It works.
Could be wrong, but I think the soccer may be one of the only sports where the “exact” time is not played out. Maybe Rugby Union as well?

[number 9]

I really don’t like these extended injury time rules. Have to say I like the NFL model of having a visible clock throughout the game where by the clock stops when play is interrupted. I know the traditionalist won’t like it, but it rules out any manipulation or ambiguity for when the match ends. Just my opinion…

Good point 9……. The only problem is, game kicks off at 3pm, ends at quarter to 8!

AFL is the same with clock management. It works.
Could be wrong, but I think the soccer may be one of the only sports where the “exact” time is not played out. Maybe Rugby Union as well?

Haha yeah, but it makes for a great tailgate party!

[number 9]

Sorry for changing the subject of the thread, I just figured the thread is pretty much dead anyway. Maybe time management can be another thread in the future.

Yes, it would have to be regulated for soccer. For instance stopping the clock when the ball goes out of play wouldn’t be practical. However, for injuries or black cats on the pitch it could be useful.